Bava Metzia 88

Chapter 88

א דחריף הוי טבעא דהבא דלא חריף הוי פירא וקני ליה פירא לטבעא
1 is current, it ranks as money; whilst gold, which is not current, is accounted as produce, and so the produce effects a title to the money.
ב אמר רב אשי כילדותיה מסתברא מדקתני הנחשת קונה את הכסף
2 R. Ashi said: Reason supports the opinion held in his youth, since it [the Mishnah] teaches: COPPER ACQUIRES SILVER. Now, should you agree that silver ranks as produce vis a vis gold, it is well: hence it states, COPPER ACQUIRES SILVER, to show that though it is accounted as produce in relation to gold, it ranks as money in respect of copper; but should you maintain that silver ranks as money in respect of gold, then [the question arises:] If in relation to gold, which is more valuable, you say that it ranks as money, is it necessary [to state so] in relation to copper, seeing that it is both more valuable and also current?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Ashi thus attempts to prove that the second clause of the Mishnah is more in consonance with the first clause on Rabbi's early view, since on his subsequent opinion the whole of the second clause would be superfluous. Rashi observes that the second clause will be in the form taught to Rabbi by R. Meir his teacher, it being a Talmudic principle that an anonymous Mishnah agrees with R. Meir. Cf. however, Weiss, Dor II, ch. 22. ');"><sup>1</sup></span>
ג אי אמרת בשלמא כספא לגבי דהבא פירא הוי היינו דקא תני הנחשת קונה את הכסף דאע"פ דלגבי דהבא פירא הויא לגבי נחשת טבעא הוי אלא אי אמרת כספא לגבי דהבא טבעא הוי השתא לגבי דהבא דחשיב מיניה אמרת טבעא הוי לגבי נחשת דאיהו חשיב ואיהו חריף מבעיא
3 — It is necessary:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., even if silver coin be accounted as money in respect to gold, the second clause of the Mishnah must be stated. ');"><sup>2</sup></span>
ד איצטריך סלקא דעתך אמינא הני פריטי באתרא דסגיי אינהו חריפי טפי מכספא אימא טבעא הוי קמ"ל כיון דאיכא דוכתא דלא סגי ביה פירא הוי
4 I might have thought that the [copper] coins,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [H], the plural of the more familiar [H]. ');"><sup>3</sup></span>
ה ואף ר' חייא סבר דהבא טבעא הוי דרב אוזיף דינרי מברתיה דר' חייא לסוף אייקור דינרי אתא לקמיה דרבי חייא א"ל זיל שלים לה טבין ותקילין אי אמרת בשלמא דהבא טבעא הוי שפיר אלא אי אמרת פירא הוי הוה ליה סאה בסאה ואסור
5 where they do circulate, have greater currency than silver:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. p. 262, n. 3, on currency of coins of small value. ');"><sup>4</sup></span>
ו רב דינרי הוו ליה וכיון דהוו ליה דינרי נעשה כאומר לה הלויני עד שיבא בני או עד שאמצא מפתח
6 therefore we are taught that since there is a place where they have no circulation,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The actual place is not given. ');"><sup>5</sup></span>
ז אמר רבא האי תנא סבר דהבא טבעא הוי דתניא פרוטה שאמרו אחד משמונה באיסר האיטלקי למאי נפקא מינה לקדושי אשה איסר אחד מעשרים וארבעה בדינר של כסף למאי נפקא מינה למקח וממכר
7 they rank as produce.
ח דינר של כסף אחד מעשרים וחמשה בדינר של זהב למאי נפקא מינה לפדיון הבן
8 Now, R. Hiyya too regards gold [coin] as money. For Rab once borrowed [gold] <i>denarii</i> from R. Hiyya's daughter. Subsequently, <i>denarii</i> having appreciated, he went before R. Hiyya.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To consult him what to do, so as not to infringe the prohibition of interest. ');"><sup>6</sup></span>
ט אי אמרת בשלמא טבעא הוי משער תנא במידי דקיץ אלא אי אמרת פירא הוי משער תנא במידי דאוקיר וזיל זימנין דמהדר ליה כהנא וזימנין דמוסיף ליה איהו לכהנא אלא שמע מינה טבעא הוי ש"מ
9 'Go and repay her current and full-weight coin,' he ordered. Now, if you agree that gold ranks as money, it is well.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Notwithstanding its appreciation, he would be returning money of the same nominal value as that which he borrowed. ');"><sup>7</sup></span>
י תנן התם בית שמאי אומרים לא יעשה אדם סלעין דינרי זהב ובית הלל מתירין ר' יוחנן וריש לקיש חד אמר מחלוקת בסלעים על דינרין דב"ש סברי כספא טבעא ודהבא פירא וטבעא אפירא לא מחללינן וב"ה סברי כספא פירא ודהבא טבעא ופירא אטבעא מחללינן אבל פירות על דינרין דברי הכל מחללינן
10 But should you maintain that it is produce, it is the equivalent of [borrowing] a <i>se'ah</i> for a <i>se'ah</i> [to be repaid later], which is forbidden?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lest it appreciates in the meantime; v. infra 75a. ');"><sup>8</sup></span>
יא מ"ט מידי דהוה אכסף לב"ה כסף לב"ה אע"ג דכספא לגבי דהבא פירא הוי לגבי פירא טבעא הוי זהב נמי לב"ש אע"ג דדהבא לגבי כספא פירא הוי לגבי פירא טבעא הוי וחד אמר אף בפירות על דינרין מחלוקת
11 — [That does not prove it, for] Rab himself possessed [gold] <i>denarii</i> [when he incurred the debt], and that being so, it is just as though he had said to her, 'Lend me until my son comes', or 'until I find the key.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. infra 75a. ');"><sup>9</sup></span>
יב ולמ"ד אף בפירות על דינרין מחלוקת אדמיפלגי בסלעין על דינרין לפלוג בפירות על דינרין אי איפלוג בפירות על דינרין הוה אמינא ה"מ בפירות על דינרין אבל בסלעין על דינרין מודו להן בית הלל לבית שמאי דדהבא לגבי כספא פירא הוי ולא מחללינן קמ"ל
12 Raba said: The following Tanna is of the opinion that gold is money. For it has been taught: The <i>perutah</i> which they [the Sages] spoke of is an eighth of an Italian <i>issar</i>.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Roman assarius. ');"><sup>10</sup></span>
יג תסתיים דרבי יוחנן הוא דאמר אין מחללין דאמר רבי יוחנן
13 What is the practical bearing thereof? In respect of a woman's <i>kiddushin</i>.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Glos. This kiddushin must not be less than a perutah or its equivalent (Kid. 2a); hence it must be defined. ');"><sup>11</sup></span> The <i>issar</i> is a twenty-fourth of a silver <i>denar</i>. What is the practical bearing thereof? In respect to buying and selling.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Rashi: If one sold a denar for more than twenty-four issars, the vendee was cheated, and if the overcharge amounted to a sixth (v. infra 49b), it is returnable. Tosaf. rejects this, because in Kid. 12a it is stated that the issar was variable sometimes rising in value and sometimes falling, and therefore explains: If one sold an article for 24 issars, when these were worth a denar, and subsequently, before payment was made, the issar depreciated to 32 to the denar, the buyer must pay the full denar or 32 issars. ');"><sup>12</sup></span> A silver <i>denar</i> is a twenty-fifth of a gold <i>denar</i>. What is the practical bearing thereof? In respect to the redemption of the firstborn.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which, according to the Bible, is five shekels = 30 silver denarii. So that if the father gave the priest a gold denar, he must return him five silver denarii. ');"><sup>13</sup></span> Now, if you agree that it [gold] is accounted as money, it is well: the Tanna thus assesses [the coins] on something of fixed value.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the gold denar is always theoretically reckoned at 25 silver denarii, and the redemption is assessed accordingly. So that even if the gold denar was actually worth 20 denarii, we do not regard the gold as having depreciated, but the silver as having appreciated; therefore, if the father gave a gold denar, he is still entitled to a proportionate return, which is now four denarii, notwithstanding that the gold denar is now nominally valued at 20 silver denarii, the exact sum required for redemption. ');"><sup>14</sup></span> But should you say that it ranks as produce; can the Tanna give an assessment on the basis of that which rises and falls in value? Sometimes the priest may have to give him change.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of a gold denar, sc. when it stands at more than twenty silver denarii. ');"><sup>15</sup></span> whilst at others he [the father] will have to give an additional sum to the priest!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' How then can the Tanna state that in respect of redemption the gold denar is always valued at 25 silver denarii? ');"><sup>16</sup></span> Hence it is proved that it ranks as money. This proof is conclusive. We learnt elsewhere: Beth Shammai say: One must not turn [silver] <i>sela's</i> into gold <i>denarii</i>; but Beth Hillel permit it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' M. Sh. II, 7. A sela'= 4 denarii. The reference is to the second tithe, which had to be consumed in Jerusalem; if however, it was too burdensome to carry thither, it might be redeemed by money, which was to be expended there (Deut. XIV, 22-26). Now, if the produce had been thus exchanged for silver sela's, Beth Shammai rule that these silver coins may not be re-exchanged for gold denarii to lighten the burden still further. Beth Hillel, however, permit this, and the Talmud proceeds to discuss this difference of opinion. ');"><sup>17</sup></span> Now, R. Johanan and Resh Lakish [differ thereon]: One maintains that the dispute concerns exchanging <i>sela's</i> for <i>denarii</i>. Beth Shammai holds that silver [coin] ranks as money, whereas gold counts as produce, and money may not be redeemed by produce.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since the Bible only authorises the reverse (ibid. 25). ');"><sup>18</sup></span> Whilst In the opinion of Beth Hillel, silver [coin] ranks as produce and gold as money, and produce may be redeemed by money. But all agree that [actual] produce may be redeemed by [gold] <i>denarii</i>. Why so? By analogy with silver [coin] on the view of Beth Hillel. [Thus: consider] silver according to Beth Hillel, though ranking as produce vis a vis gold, it nevertheless counts as money in respect to [real] produce. So is gold too according to Beth Shammai; though accounted as produce vis a vis silver, it ranks as money in respect to [real] produce. But the other maintains: The dispute concerns the exchanging of [real] produce for [gold] <i>denarii</i> too,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., Beth Shammai regard gold as produce absolutely, even without reference to any other commodity, and therefore one may not redeem other produce therewith. ');"><sup>19</sup></span> Now, on the view that the dispute concerns the exchanging of [real] produce for [gold] <i>denarii</i> too, [then] instead of stating their dispute in reference to the exchange of <i>sela's</i> for <i>denarii</i>, let them state it with reference to [actual] produce for <i>denarii</i>!-If the dispute were thus taught, I might have thought that it applies only to the exchange of produce for <i>denarii</i>; but as for exchanging sela'im for <i>denarii</i>, Beth Hillel concede to Beth Shammai that gold vis a vis silver ranks as produce and that [silver] may consequently not be redeemed [by gold]: therefore we are informed [that it is not so]. It may be proved that it is R. Johanan who holds that it may not be redeemed thus.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., that in the opinion of Beth Shammai not even real produce may be redeemed by gold denarii. ');"><sup>20</sup></span> For R. Johanan said: